Frank Zappa

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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Leonard_Cohen on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:15 am

No just no.. who you like is a matter of taste, but Beefhearts music is quite a lot more complex lol.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:23 am

Disagreed.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:24 am

Chiliholic wrote:
The Great Heroins wrote:
Question (if sensitive Zappa fan, don't read):
Unecessary comment is unnecessary but, what is the appeal of Zappa's music to you genuine fans out there?  I have tried to enjoy it but I just get this intense "show off" vibe from it.  Maybe I take it way too seriously but I feel the music was written on the basis of him saying, "Alright, let's see how many notes we can fit in here."  I know it's supposed to be weird music but I guess I never really got avante-garde sounds.
For me the appeal is the diversity of his music. I enjoy most sides of the stuff he did, whether it's avant garde, jazz fusion, straight rock or humour stuff. I don't know what stuff you've listened by him, but for example albums like Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe' are easy listening stuff without much "showing off" or weird avant garde stuff.
Same here. I'm always intrigued by his versatility as a composer, plus the way he uses different instruments and voices to create some very interesting musical compositions.

"Inca Roads" is probably the greatest song I've heard by Frank. It's amazing.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Leonard_Cohen on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:43 am

Meager Smotherer wrote:Disagreed.
What a shame you are wrong, it would be better for you if you disagreed and were right. Have you even listened to Beefhearts work? The complexity in them is quite obviously on a whole different level than what you will find in Zappa's. Shiny Beast and Trout Mask Replica are enough to end this debate before it even started lol.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Lurex on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:46 am

ram it, ram it, ram it up your poopshoot
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Zedd Squared on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:48 am

Dude Beefheart isn't even in the same ballpark. Much of Trout Mask Replica for example is technique wise pretty messy in how it's executed. Could Beefheart put together something like the Black Page? I certainly haven't heard anything approaching it. You're making a pretty big claim here that's gonna take some serious evidence to convince me of.


Last edited by Whackooyzero on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:48 am

Leonard_Cohen wrote:
Meager Smotherer wrote:Disagreed.
What a shame you are wrong, it would be better for you if you disagreed and were right. Have you even listened to Beefhearts work? The complexity in them is quite obviously on a whole different level than what you will find in Zappa's. Shiny Beast and Trout Mask Replica are enough to end this debate before it even started lol.
Yes, I've listened to those albums. Instead of acting like a pretentious elitist dweebo, why not accept the fact that I have different opinion, like many others?

Goddamn Chernobyl emmigrants.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  DonutsGalacticos on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:51 am

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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Leonard_Cohen on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:56 am

Technical complexity isn't quite as subjective as you'd like it to be.

Whackyozero: I thought we were talking about their works as wholes? Not their ability to play given instruments in a conventional sense. In that case Beefheart wins anyway because Zappa has jack shit on his singing skills with anything he can pull out whether it be vocals or whatever.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:02 am

Durrr 

Ignore this man.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  B6 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:17 am

I like how he always finds a way to feel intellectually superior in any given situation Razz 
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Young Heroins on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:44 pm

Leonard_Cohen wrote:
Meager Smotherer wrote:Disagreed.
What a shame you are wrong, it would be better for you if you disagreed and were right. Have you even listened to Beefhearts work? The complexity in them is quite obviously on a whole different level than what you will find in Zappa's. Shiny Beast and Trout Mask Replica are enough to end this debate before it even started lol.
I consider you a cool dude but, how can his opinion be wrong man?  You are so much smarter than that my friend.

edit: Yeah don't gang up on Cohen, he is a cool guy he just has a drug using sense of humour. I do agree his comments here are kinda over the top though. He is still a cool guy. I am sorry though, that chernobyl comment was fucking hilarious though LOL.


Last edited by The Great Heroins on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : EA)
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Hopscotch on Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:29 pm

Whackooyzero wrote:
On the word "mystery" at 1:03 Zappa hits a strong G1. Surprised nobody pointed this out back in the early TRP days. Also there's not really any B1s as is listed it's mainly around C2.
Hey, sounds right to me. Surprised Wouldn't call it melodic, though. The whole passage is more of a parlando than anything.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Zedd Squared on Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:40 pm

True I mean most of his lows in that area are parlando but this OP doesn't have the new system yet. Actually some of these passages are kind of in that mid way point between speaking and rapping, like in Dinah Moe Humm.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  KeithMoonIsGod on Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:07 pm

Leonard_Cohen wrote:
Meager Smotherer wrote:Disagreed.
What a shame you are wrong, it would be better for you if you disagreed and were right. Have you even listened to Beefhearts work? The complexity in them is quite obviously on a whole different level than what you will find in Zappa's. Shiny Beast and Trout Mask Replica are enough to end this debate before it even started lol.
What the fuck are you on about?
I love both Captain Beefheart and Zappa, but Beefheart's music is focused on one thing: the fact that Beefy is nuts. You don't buy a Beefheart album because you want to relax and listen to some nice music; you listen to the Cap'n to hear some things that just sound plain weird. Zappa has a deeper meaning to his stuff, as everyone has pointed out. Joe's Garage is a satire of literally dozens of issues in society: censorship, religion, misogyny, sexism, and tons of other stuff. And he make us laugh at all that. Beefheart made us laugh at the bizarre and silly things he sang about, not through his parodies of stuff that was happening at the time.
And if you want to argue that Beefheart's music was more complex, then you're high. Sure, he experiments in different and odd time signatures, but the stuff is fairly simple. Most of Beefy's stuff is blues-based, if you listen to it. Zappa's all over the place. He experiments with jazz, blues, fusion, classical (And has released more than a few orchestral albums), and countless other genres. And as a drummer, I can tell you that Zappa has written stuff that would make even Neil Peart shit himself.
Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

and, for the grand finale, Exhibit C:


Could Beefy write shit like that? Wasn\'t Me
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Young Heroins on Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:27 pm

Wow, the tension of that odd time signature is insane man...  that truly is some impressive drumming!  What the hell is 4/4 time?

edit: or is that 4/4 time with just incredibly dissonant rhythmed drumming?
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  KeithMoonIsGod on Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:24 pm

The Great Heroins wrote:Wow, the tension of that odd time signature is insane man...  that truly is some impressive drumming!  What the hell is 4/4 time?

edit: or is that 4/4 time with just incredibly dissonant rhythmed drumming?
If we're talking about "The Black Page", then you'll be shocked to know that's 4/4. Watch his high-hat and count the beat; it's at a fairly slow tempo, but the tuplets used are so incredibly complex, they make the piece sound faster due to the amount of notes played.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Young Heroins on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:18 pm

Yes I am talking about that one. At first I was positive it wasn't in 4/4 because of the sheer complexity and dissonance but after a quick follow of the high hat I soon realized just how insane this piece really is.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Chiliholic on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:22 pm

The Great Heroins wrote:I've only heard two songs to be honest, "Don't Eat the Yellow Snow" and "Joe's Garage."  Now that I think about it, perhaps I am assuming too much from too little.  I do respect his musicianship though, I always have.  Perhaps i'll give a listen to the easy listening album you mentioned in hopes to find the same spark you guys have as I hear Zappa's name all too often to not know him well.
Yeah, you probably were assuming too much from too little. Judging his discography of 50+ albums based on two songs, given the wide range of musical styles Zappa displayed, is an underestimate of the century.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Leonard_Cohen on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:52 pm

I'm such an idiot.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Hopscotch on Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:55 am

Popcorn 
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Monocus on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:23 am

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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Nick Drake on Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:56 am

This is probably the worst thread on the site. The comments are such a shitfest.
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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  glds on Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:56 am

Then why revive a 2+ year dead thread? :^)

You're not wrong tho.

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Re: Frank Zappa

Post  Zedd Squared on Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:49 am

Yeah it's quite a mess of arguing but at least the notes are accurate. This is a thread that will probably be permamently WIP essentially though seeing as he has so many albums.
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Re: Frank Zappa

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