Don Dokken

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Celice on Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:10 am

Bit of a grey area.
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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:10 pm

G5 in Unchain The Night? Maybe F♯5, but I think he at least touches on G5. Timestamp is in the link.

E5s in Crash 'N Burn at about 3:34 and 5:00?

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  B6 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:15 pm

Both sound correct to me.
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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:50 pm

D5 in Night By Night?

As was previously discussed, I definitely don't hear anything near B5 in "Liar" but E5 sounds correct to me so I guess it can be added back at the correct pitch. Liar Live Back In The Streets

Similarly, while "Prisoner" live Back In The Streets definitely didn't have anything near the A5 and B♭5 previously listed. I think he does get up to E♭5? Prisoner Live Back In The Streets

And B4 in "Prisoner" off Back For The Attack(different song)? Prisoner

Edit: Also just noticed sung range is still listed G♯2-A5 when it should be A2-A5.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:52 am

E5 is right for Liar. Not sure how they were ever originally listed that much higher Smile.

Also, there's a pretty black G5 at the very end of "In My Dreams" when it's fading out.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:36 pm

Woo wrote:E5 is right for Liar. Not sure how they were ever originally listed that much higher Smile.

Also, there's a pretty black G5 at the very end of "In My Dreams" when it's fading out.

The In My Dreams note you're referring to is here, right? Nice note. So the "Prisoner" live Back In The Streets notes get up to E5 as well then? Wasn't sure myself, thought around that range or E♭5.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:52 am

Yeah he hits pretty much the exact same note at the end of Prisoner as he does in Liar (E5).

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:35 pm



Pretty unexpected low just after 6:35 on "It's not salvation." B♭2 or around there? It sounds pretty fryish to me, though I think he goes down to a pretty solid D3 shortly after.

There's also very audible lows in the backing vocals of "Lightnin' Strikes Again", but I have no idea if they're Don, or if they're pitch-altered.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:32 pm

If you feel like some more notewatching, you might want to check out their "Live at Conception" album which is listed as 1981 but its actually from Dec 1983. Either way, his voice is really strong and belts 'em out pretty well. It's worth a listen anyway if you haven't heard it before, it's good.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:35 am

Yeah, I have that one. Was released a few years ago. His E5+ notes are fairly well accounted for. He obviously has more, but it'd be good to get some more notes in the B4-E♭5 range. I'm actually kind of surprised how many of his highs reached G5. His best vocals were from about 1985-1988, imo.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:05 am

OldSchoolHeavyMetal wrote:His best vocals were from about 1985-1988, imo.
I just listened to the "Beast from the east" live album (1988) and I totally agree. I didn't pitch anything but he sounds great. I think he gets up to A5 a few times.

BTW, there's a fantastic sounding A5 at 5:32 in "It's Not Love" that I think might actually be Jeff Pilson singing, but I am not 100% sure:


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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:48 pm

Yeah, Beast from the East was a great live album for the band. Around the time of "Back for the Attack", they were all pretty much at their peak musically, and peaking in terms of popularity making it even more ridiculous that they shot themselves in the foot with their egos.

Anyway, the higher note in that harmony would definitely be Pilson. I can hear Don's voice, and he doesn't sound like he's getting close to A5, but Pilson often sang the higher harmonies live. Jeff was always a talented singer himself, and his harmonies were a nice addition to the live performances when he was with Dio as well.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:18 pm

OldSchoolHeavyMetal wrote:Yeah, Beast from the East was a great live album for the band. Around the time of "Back for the Attack", they were all pretty much at their peak musically, and peaking in terms of popularity making it even more ridiculous that they shot themselves in the foot with their egos.

Anyway, the higher note in that harmony would definitely be Pilson. I can hear Don's voice, and he doesn't sound like he's getting close to A5, but Pilson often sang the higher harmonies live. Jeff was always a talented singer himself, and his harmonies were a nice addition to the live performances when he was with Dio as well.
Yeah, you're right. After a couple more listens I think he tops out on that album at a G#5 before the solo in "When Heaven Comes Down. He hits a solid G5 in that song and at the end of Kiss of Death as well. His normal E5-ish belting range sounds great across the whole album though.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:36 pm

Thanks, I'll check those. Feel free to post whatever you find that you think is significant.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:47 pm

Man, I just stumbled onto a gem of a song I'd never heard before listening to the discography. It's funny how many bands have one song hiding on some CD somewhere that just rocks disgustingly hard. Lynch's guitar playing is ridiculous on this track.

Anyway, there's a freaky sounding G#5 after the solo at 2:37. Is just me or is there a higher note being sung by a background harmony?


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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:27 am

Always really liked that song, it's one of the harder rocking tracks on the album, which is very good, but most of the album is more of a pop-metal style. Yeah, Lynch's solo is great in that one.

There's definitely more than one vocal there, but yeah, sounds weird. I always use to notice that note when I listen to "Under Lock and Key", but had forgotten about it, and remembered the great E5 at the end more. Will listen to it again since it does sound kinf of weird, but maybe a B♭ in there, or lower, a E♭. But I think I might be hearing that as an F♯5 with an A5 or B5 harmony? Really not sure yet.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:08 pm

What the hell do you make of the weird scream/whatever that is at the 2:31 mark in this track (this wasn't on the original release).



I've never heard anything like that out of him before. I'm not sure what to make of it, but if I'm hearing it right it might be one of if not his highest note on record. I swear it sounds like a horribly strained A5 that momentarily cracks higher once or twice.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:17 pm

Not 100% sure about that scream thing. It's a weak note, and Lynch starts soloing so I can't hear it that well. And Lynch tears it up, by the way. But back to Don's note, I'd say a bad G♯5.

There's also back to back lines at E5 at 1:35, which he didn't do on the original studio version and a few more E5s at 1:55. By the way, he goes up for an excellent F♯5 with his trademark vibrato at about 3:33 as well a nice sustained E5 at 4:02 and then an excellent sustained G5 at 4:37.

Always really liked that song, and the Tooth and Nail album in general. The following 2 albums were more polished, and they were a better overall band in terms of musicianship and songwriting maturity. But Tooth and Nail was more raw and aggressive with a straight forward heavy metal style, and songs more in that vein like the title track and "When Heaven Comes Down." Don said the sense of urgency came from almost being dropped by their label after Breaking the Chains didn't sell well. I've always guessed Lynch had more influence on Tooth and Nail, since he seemed to be the one who wanted the band to have more of a heavy metal sound.

But after their success with Tooth and Nail which was considered a surprise, as George put it glam was in and Don had the idea to buy "5,000 dollar clown suits" and compete with Motley Crue. It's funny looking at how different their image was between the two albums.




In the first picture from Tooth and Nail, they pretty much look like any other 80's metal band. For example, more in line with the Scorpions, Iron Maiden or Accept, while in the second, they're bordering on Poison territory.

But despite being a metal head, I liked their more commercial and polished pop-metal sound on Under Lock and Key a lot as well. When a lot of bands make an effort to become more commercial, the quality is diminished, but that wasn't the case with them. What's cool about Back for the Attack is that it's pretty much somewhere between their heavier, straight forward approach and their polished pop-metal sound. With it being their first album of the CD era and having 13 songs instead of 10, I thought it was cool that they pretty much split the album between the two styles. Funny enough, their image was also somewhere between. More glam than Tooth and Nail, but definitely toned down from Under Lock and Key.

By the way, at the moment, by best guess for that note in "Til the Livin' End" is F♯5 with a B5 harmony, but it's really weird. There's some strange effect during the glissando, and it's difficult to make out each vocal exactly. Would like to hear another opinion on it.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:37 pm

OldSchoolHeavyMetal wrote:Not 100% sure about that scream thing. It's a weak note, and Lynch starts soloing so I can't hear it that well. And Lynch tears it up, by the way. But back to Don's note, I'd say a bad G♯5.

There's also back to back lines at E5 at 1:35, which he didn't do on the original studio version and a few more E5s at 1:55. By the way, he goes up for an excellent F♯5 with his trademark vibrato at about 3:33 as well a nice sustained E5 at 4:02 and then an excellent sustained G5 at 4:37.

Yeah, he's bringing it all over that track.

Always really liked that song, and the Tooth and Nail album in general. The following 2 albums were more polished, and they were a better overall band in terms of musicianship and songwriting maturity. But Tooth and Nail was more raw and aggressive with a straight forward heavy metal style, and songs more in that vein like the title track and "When Heaven Comes Down." Don said the sense of urgency came from almost being dropped by their label after Breaking the Chains didn't sell well. I've always guessed Lynch had more influence on Tooth and Nail, since he seemed to be the one who wanted the band to have more of a heavy metal sound.

I'm guessing there's a good chance you've seen it, but if you haven't seen the 5 part interview with him on YouTube by "LivingLegendsSeries", I'm sure you'd enjoy it. He goes in depth about the urgency surrounding Tooth and Nail in that.

But after their success with Tooth and Nail which was considered a surprise, as George put it glam was in and Don had the idea to buy "5,000 dollar clown suits" and compete with Motley Crue. It's funny looking at how different their image was between the two albums.




In the first picture from Tooth and Nail, they pretty much look like any other 80's metal band. For example, more in line with the Scorpions, Iron Maiden or Accept, while in the second, they're bordering on Poison territory.

Haha, for sure!

But despite being a metal head, I liked their more commercial and polished pop-metal sound on Under Lock and Key a lot as well. When a lot of bands make an effort to become more commercial, the quality is diminished, but that wasn't the case with them. What's cool about Back for the Attack is that it's pretty much somewhere between their heavier, straight forward approach and their polished pop-metal sound. With it being their first album of the CD era and having 13 songs instead of 10, I thought it was cool that they pretty much split the album between the two styles. Funny enough, their image was also somewhere between. More glam than Tooth and Nail, but definitely toned down from Under Lock and Key.

I've been on a Dokken kick lately (if you couldn't tell), and it's been interesting going back and listening to the different albums. Your take on it is pretty spot on, I think,

By the way, at the moment, by best guess for that note in "Til the Livin' End" is F♯5 with a B5 harmony, but it's really weird. There's some strange effect during the glissando, and it's difficult to make out each vocal exactly. Would like to hear another opinion on it.

I hear the same thing, but it's really hard to tell. FWIW, as much as I'd love to find a Bb5/B5 from him, if there is a B5 in there it almost has to be Jeff or someone else. It sounds far too clean and Don's voice is super rough-sounding anytime he hits a G#5 or A5

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:18 am

Woo wrote:I'm guessing there's a good chance you've seen it, but if you haven't seen the 5 part interview with him on YouTube by "LivingLegendsSeries", I'm sure you'd enjoy it. He goes in depth about the urgency surrounding Tooth and Nail in that.

I don't know if I've seen that interview in particular, I'll check it out, though since I'm a big fan of the band. I really think the Dokken/Lynch/Pilson/Brown lineup was one of the best in hard rock/metal and had a phenomenal run from '84-'88 with one of the better 3 studio album stretches I've heard, and one of my favorite live albums to top it off. The shame is that they had great momentum at the time, both in terms of quality and popularity. Tooth and Nail only peaked at 49 on the charts, but was a surprise hit, and did much better in 1985 than '84, "Alone Again" hit number 64 on the singles charts, and Tooth and Nail went platinum before the end of the decade. Under Lock and Key was released a year later, and was their first top 40 album peaking at %32, "In My Dreams" peaked at #77 on the singles chart making it their second top 100, and this album went platinum faster than Tooth and Nail. Then Back for the Attack not only peaked much higher at #13, but outsold the others two and remains their best-selling, while "Burning like a Flame" was a cheesy song, it did give them another top 100 single at #72 and got good promo out of "Dream Warriors" and the 3rd Nightmare on Elm Street movie. Kind of funny since both 80's metal and horror/slasher movies pretty much sum up most of my tastes as a kid and to this day, other than sports and 80's/early to mid 90's action films. I actually still have a cassette single for "Dream Warriors" somewhere that also features the song "Back for the Attack", which definitely should have made the album. Evidence of their growing popularity aside from each album doing better than the one before it was how well their live album "Beast for the East" did. Usually live albums are less successful, but Beast from the East still went gold, hit #33 on the charts and got them nominated for a grammy, despite Dokken breaking up around the release of it and not doing proper promo.

Had they done one more studio album, it probably would have come out in late '89/early '90 when the market still would have been good for them, and perhaps put them in line with the first-tier bands in terms of popularity. I look at things like this because I like seeing bands I'm a fan of get the recognition they deserve. I've also looked at this with Dio. His popularity was rising during the Viv Campbell era, and he wanted to release a live album, which was the logical thing to do considering how big his stage show was and how great attendance at concerts was. For some reason, the record label refused and settled for the E.P. "Intermission", and not only did Dio's growing popularity stop, but it declined significantly starting with "Dream Evil."

In Dokken's case, it was Don and George shooting themselves in the foot by not being able to get along. They were really prospering due to the collective strength of the band and their egos were too big to realize it.

Actually, what's surprising for an 80's band is that their comeback album "Dysfunctional" did well in 1995 all things considered. It peaked at #47 on the charts and sold 400,000 copies, despite Lynch apparently fucking up some promo deal that would have gotten them much more exposure. You don't expect bands associated with the glam-metal scene or image in virtually anyway to do pretty well in '95. Of course, Dysfunctional wasn't up to par with the great 3 album stretch from '84-'87, but not bad. Don's voice wasn't all gone, but clearly not near the level he was at in the 80's, and Lynch's guitar playing was not nearly as inspired as the incredible stretch from '84-'93, and his focus on bodybuilding seemed to affect his technique compared to '87-'93, but overall, it was still a pretty good album for the contemporary music scene at the time. Much better than "Shadowlife."

I've been on a Dokken kick lately (if you couldn't tell), and it's been interesting going back and listening to the different albums. Your take on it is pretty spot on, I think

Yeah, they've always been a favorite of mine. I hadn't listened to them in a while, but you've reminded me that I should give those another listen. Unfortunately, I've had to sell a lot of my music selection because of financial problems, but luckily, I didn't sell the classic Dokken stuff.

I hear the same thing, but it's really hard to tell. FWIW, as much as I'd love to find a Bb5/B5 from him, if there is a B5 in there it almost has to be Jeff or someone else. It sounds far too clean and Don's voice is super rough-sounding anytime he hits a G#5 or A5

Well, Don's A5 from "Seven Thunders" is pretty clean. He simply doesn't have that many notes above G5, though. Other than "Seven Thunders", I know of "Lightning Strikes Again G♯5, and that live "When Heaven Comes Down you mentioned sounded like it got up to G♯5 as well, but other than that, he has a surprising amount of G5s, but doesn't seem to have much higher than that. Though I've note-watched other singers like that. Timo Kotipelto of Stratovarius has E♭5s in virtually every song, has a number of good F♯5s, but I know of exactly 3 notes from him live or studio at G5 or higher. He might have a few more, but I doubt he'd recorded many more.

I'd still like to be sure of that "Til the Livin' End" note before I add it. At least the lead vocal. A higher backing vocal could definitely be Jeff. Here's an example.



At 1:25, I believe Don hits an A4, and Jeff harmonizes higher at C5 I believe, which he sustains longer than Don and takes up to D5, maybe touching on E♭5. Mick sang too, but he had a lower voice, and wasn't as skilled as Jeff or Don, so any higher harmony would be Jeff, not Mick.

By the way, this is a favorite of mine from Dokken. Real hard-rocking song that's catchy, has strong vocals and a killer guitar solo at 2:21.


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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:23 pm

Haha, I just read this in an interview:

KNAC.com: Was it just after "Under Lock and Key" that you felt that the band had to make the step if it was ever going to?

Don Dokken: "Yeah, at Monsters of Rock, I knew that we had nowhere to go but down. The band was completely imploding. When Jeff had come back to the band in '95 to work on my solo record, 'Dysfunctional', which actually turned into a DOKKEN album — we got into conversations a couple of times about what happened. When we would talk, I told him, 'Well, there are a couple of things you probably don't know, Jeff.' He said, 'What?' I told him, 'You know, you guys used to talk pretty loud when you were partying. Do you know what it's like to be the lead singer of a band and trying to get some sleep in your bunk when you have three guys up at the front of the bus plotting how to try to get rid of you?' It was like, 'Boy, if we could just get a better singer or a younger singer.' It was also stuff like, 'Jeff, you could do the lead vocals and we could go as a three piece if we could just get the name.' I had to listen to these types of conversations where people were just conspiring to try to undermine me. It didn't make me a real happy camper in the morning.

BTW here part 1 of the video series I was talking about, good stuff IMO:


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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:07 pm

Yeah, I've heard Don make those claims before. Though both Don and Lynch make so many claims that contradict each other it's hard to know who is telling the truth. Their appearance together on That Metal Show to sort of announce a reunion was really awkward.

George has always been my favorite member. Probably one of my 5 favorite guitarists. Really an outstanding player with a great sound, but they had a great lineup overall. Don obviously had the band named after him and was the frontman, while Lynch got a lot of praise in guitar magazines and from musicians, but Jeff was a good bass player as well as a multi-instrumentalist, and a very good singer capable of singing lead, and he provided some fantastic backing vocals. Mick was a basic drummer, but solid for the style and a capable singer himself. That was one of the things that made them a great band and set them apart, imo, was that they had 3 guys who could sing and those big harmonies. That, Lynch's catchy riffs and scorching leads and Don's melodic vocals were really their trademarks. Most importantly, they wrote consistently good songs with few fillers during that great 3 album stretch. It really was a collective effort, not a band carried by one or two members.

Actually, I think Don tends to get underrated as a singer. Sure, he wasn't in the class of popular contemporaries such as Dio, Dickinson, Halford, Tate, Coverdale or guys like that. But he did have a smooth, melodic style with strength in the important upper 4th octave to lower 5th octave, and a well-developed head voice capable of strong, clean E5s and his share of very good upper 5th octave notes. He could fit during the ballad stuff or the faster, heavier stuff, and during those quiet parts, his upper 3rd octave sounded quite good as well. "Dream Warriors" is a hell of a performance for example.

That's why it's crazy to me that I've heard people talk about him as the weak link, or claim he held the band back. A better example of that would be Mike Tramp, imo. Vito Bratta was an amazing guitarist, but I always thought Tramp's vocals were weak as well in comparison. Truthfully, I also feel Don was well above singers like Stephen Pearcy, Vince Neil and Bret Michaels, all of whom fronted more popular bands.

By the way, I've been able to fill out the B4-D5 area more. That track I posted before, "Lost Behind the Wall" has strong B4s throughout, and here is an excellent D5 from Stop Fighting Love. This is another catchy song.



Nice C5 at 0:38 and B4 at 0:44. Actually, the B4 with that vibrato kind of reminds me of Bruce Dickinson. Very good high melody singing throughout this song, including many other good C5s. Really strong performance from Don. He goes to a few higher notes at 4:27 as well, I think the first one touches on E♭5 and then hits clean, strong E5s.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:36 pm

Have been adding a lot more notes, some more mid to upper 5th octave, but fortunately have found plenty of other good B4 to E♭5 range notes. I was wondering where the best place to start his highs would be? Obviously, he had tons of 5th octave stuff in the 80's, but he was no longer capable of good E5s after 1990's Up from the Ashes with his decline progressing. For example the C♯5 from Erase the Slate Listen to how much weaker it sounds compared to say "The Hunger" or even his E5s from back in his prime. At least he still has a vibrato on it, by that point he was still a pretty good singer, just much more limited. You can hear him singing much lower throughout that song despite it being up-tempo and the type of song he'd have used his lower 4th, upper 5th octave on back in the 80's. You can hear how shot his voice is on a song like this from 2008. Though I still like the song.

Also looking for more lows. There is the spoken part in "It's Not Love" from about 3:27 to 3:39.



I think I hear at least solid C3s, possibly B2.


Last edited by OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  Woo on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:17 pm

What the hell...



There's something hilarious about the acoustics of this performance/recording, because at 1:19 and 1:31-1:37, I hear almost nothing but C6(?) overtones. If it was only the scream at 1:19 I would've seriously thought I heard him hit some ridiculous note. I can't even tell what the "real" note is supposed to be. All of the screams on that recording sound like that.

Oh, and he does some sick non-modal breakdancing around that point too.

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Re: Don Dokken

Post  OldSchoolHeavyMetal on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:48 pm

I don't hear the high overtones you're talking about, but I can't make out the notes either due to the poor quality. Really like that song, though. I like most of Tooth and Nail.

By the way, what do you(or anyone else who wants to answer) make of this?



Do you think the low backing vocals at 0:22, 0:32, 1:10 and 1:20 are Don? I think those get down to about F2, but I'm not sure if it's him or Mick Brown. It sounds kind of low for him since Don has a fairly high, light voice, but I was surprised by him speaking down to D2 as solidly as he did in "Sweet Chains."

By the way, "Lightning Strikes" is one of Don's best performances. Really strong high notes throughout basically the entire song. C♯5s, E♭5s, F5s and G♯5s. Plus, he blends his head voice well, and transitions smoothly.

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