Ken Tamplin

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  jco5055 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:23 pm

Meager Smotherer wrote:Well, quite a lot. I've learned the best by simply singing, but various programs have their pros and cons.
I agree with this, and with the post above about the Ken's current marketing.

I have owned 3 out of what I'd call the Big 4 of Vocal Teacher's products (Ken, Robert Lunte, Kevin Richards, and Jamie Vendera- I'm not including Brett as most people here and elsewhere seem not to be big in SLS style, including myself).  For me that is Ken's, 4 Pillars, and Raise Your Voice.
All have their pros and cons, with cons really just being each one isn't the be-all end-all, and at least with Ken's it is very pricey.

Also, all good singing programs are more similar to each other than most think.  I would say if you took obvious beginners and had each one try a different program and we all listened to them after two weeks, they'd all seem like they have different methods of singing, but once you get to a certain level any differences is going to be individual and not method based in my opinion.

Singing actual songs is HUGE.  As much as I do advocate proper training/practicing, it is amazing how much a person learns just by working on songs.  And I obviously mean more than just "karaoke-style" singing, but working out each phrase until it is perfect.


In regards, to marketing, I'll admit that Rob is the only one who never has me question them from a shady/truth telling sense.  That doesn't mean that he has the best stuff, it's just with him I don't have to ask myself "Is this a bit scammy?" before buying.  

Like the other guys here have said, Ken used to seem perfectly fine, but now he likes to copy and paste his mantra a lot, and he has this whole "My Way is THE only way to be the best" attitude.  Not to mention that on his facebook page he has posted a few anti-Brett Manning stuff that borders on unethical in my opinion.  He is also a practitioner of the classic "delete posts that can in any way be seen as negative towards myself", though Kevin also does that and that's why I included Kevin in this category.  His forum also comes off kind of cultish.  


The only things I can say about Jaime in this category is that his "Ultimate Workout" page has that classic internet sales pitch page which seems to be THE template/standard for all sales, and those have always rubbed me the wrong way.  He also seems to be really into breaking glass, almost more so than actual singing.  He also is BIG into all of these herbal remedies and pseudo science things like massaging parts of the hand=massaging the voice and various other weird things that I imagine are most likely the placebo effect.

Now a lot of people rag on Rob because he seems to like to argue/question people who question his methods/singing etc, but at least he talks back and forth instead of straight up deleting them iand just ignoring some claim against him.  He comes off as a genuine person.

I also feel kind of bad (because I know it is a logical fallacy) that the fact that Ken and Jaime at least claim to be big Christians often has me questioning if what they say always makes sense from a science view.  Bad, I know Rolling Eyes 

Like I said, none of my "scammy" reasonings involve the actual training content, just more of how they come off personally and their marketing.

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:57 pm

That's a very good post!

About Richards, he actually has a great knowledge, I'm just not impressed with some of his video examples of singing. Ditto @ Lunte and his abysmal "Rooster" video cover. I used to hate Kevin's personality a lot, he came off as very egoistic. I've recently started appreciating his knowledge, he has some great tips to share.

VocalPowerUK is another very good teacher. Straight to the point + great examples.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  jco5055 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:15 pm

Meager Smotherer wrote:That's a very good post!

About Richards, he actually has a great knowledge, I'm just not impressed with some of his video examples of singing. Ditto @ Lunte and his abysmal "Rooster" video cover. I used to hate Kevin's personality a lot, he came off as very egoistic. I've recently started appreciating his knowledge, he has some great tips to share.

VocalPowerUK is another very good teacher. Straight to the point + great examples.
I often find it hard with the teachers that aren't as impressive vocally (both of your examples I can agree with) to figure out if it's because they are teaching/using bad techniques or if they just aren't as talented/they just weren't blessed with the most pleasant sounding voices.

Like for Rob, I really do enjoy/agree with the vast majority of his teachings (like I said no one's perfect), but for example the cover you mentioned when the chorus came in it seemed like he wasn't using ideal vowel combinations and dipthongs. Also, in general when he sings in his fifth octave he uses distortion that I am not a fan of, as I like guys like Geoff Tate the most. Similar to Ken and his "over-chesty" sound on everything. When I am practicing, I often use my ears and mold how I sing while keeping the important technical foundation intact.

I think it might just be the side effect of being a teacher, where you will start to look at everything too "scientifically," like almost right down how to sound a certain way or sing a certain phrase "properly" instead of using your ear/feelings first.

I have a friend who is exactly like this with guitar playing. From what I understand he really wasn't a "natural" at all but he forced himself to play 8 hours a day until he mastered his instrument, but he overanalyzes everything in my opinion. He still has written some great stuff and solos, but he also buys products on how to write "emotional guitar solos" etc. Even though I do know certain scales sound like a certain mood etc, I'll use that info to help but I've never felt like I had to learn how to "play an emotional solo" or such because I used my ears and I experiment until it feels emotional or however I want it.

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  R.I.P. Rapport Rapturer on Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:02 pm

That's very true. Many of these tips can aid and improve your singing, but there's a healthy limit to that as well. Many of the greatest singers surely didn't overanalyze their own singing or think "I'm using the wrong vowel here", they sang from the heart, imitating their own idols and discovering their own sound in the process. That's how it often goes: additional vocal lessons do help, but if they become more important than 'the real thing', the singer should reanalyze his/her artistic goals.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  rustyfo on Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:43 pm

Good stuff guys. I agree completely with the points about the neurotically technical approach to guitar/singing. I see it everyday on the KTVA forum as well as the skype lessons Ken has uploaded to youtube - which is actually one thing I really commend him for though - but it's seared through the KTVA "culture" to spend immense amounts of time dissecting vowel changes and details of "how to support".
Seems like very few students actually spend time listening to, and imitating, the great singers of our time and times gone by. I once read a qoute I love, I forget by whom, that goes something like this:
"It is our inability to live up to our idols that makes us who we are".
I've always felt that for me describes quite accurately the process of trying to reproduce the sound of my favorite vocalists, and while failing to do so ending up with a blend that will in the end be "my voice".

Oh and yeah the vocal power uk guy is actually quite good and seems very honest. A bit whiny but definitely has a well mixed sound. His Steve Perry impression is fairly spot on in terms of weight, while again a bit too nasally.
I really like Daniel Formica on youtube as well; brilliant singer although he hasn't uploaded too much in terms of teaching material.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  jco5055 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:25 am

rustyfo wrote:Good stuff guys. I agree completely with the points about the neurotically technical approach to guitar/singing. I see it everyday on the KTVA forum as well as the skype lessons Ken has uploaded to youtube - which is actually one thing I really commend him for though - but it's seared through the KTVA "culture" to spend immense amounts of time dissecting vowel changes and details of "how to support".
Seems like very few students actually spend time listening to, and imitating, the great singers of our time and times gone by. I once read a qoute I love, I forget by whom, that goes something like this:
"It is our inability to live up to our idols that makes us who we are".
I've always felt that for me describes quite accurately the process of trying to reproduce the sound of my favorite vocalists, and while failing to do so ending up with a blend that will in the end be "my voice".

Oh and yeah the vocal power uk guy is actually quite good and seems very honest. A bit whiny but definitely has a well mixed sound. His Steve Perry impression is fairly spot on in terms of weight, while again a bit too nasally.
I really like Daniel Formica on youtube as well; brilliant singer although he hasn't uploaded too much in terms of teaching material.
Dan is great, although I completely understand his stance on why he only does lessons I wish he would release some kind of singing home study course, as I feel it would be fairly minimal and to the point.  He seems to be more in the "anti-overanalyzing" camp which I enjoy.

Ken actually seems to be the "least" technical/most practical in terms of overanalyzing, which might have to do with him probably being the most "natural" singer out of the four I mentioned above since he's the only one that had some kind of career as a performing musician. One knock on KTVA which i agree with is that although support is important, in KTVA you bascially "oversupport" everything. I guess you are guaranteed to support on the tough notes using his method, but you are also way oversupporting on the easier stuff

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:57 am

Great discussion everyone! In spite of his apparent cocky demeanor at times, I'm pleasantly surprised by the way Ken coaches face-to-face. He seems to be really thorough and honest with his students, giving them uplifting encouragement when needed and also being frank when needed. One thing I've also noticed by watching his coaching sessions with students on his Youtube is that he really emphasizes not slamming the consonants like the yuhs or the H sounds. I could totally see why because often times, its so easy to squeeze and tense the vocal folds with these consonants because of the air pressure therefore affecting resonance and ultimately losing tuning.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  jco5055 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:50 pm

wabba_treads wrote:Great discussion everyone! In spite of his apparent cocky demeanor at times, I'm pleasantly surprised by the way Ken coaches face-to-face. He seems to be really thorough and honest with his students, giving them uplifting encouragement when needed and also being frank when needed. One thing I've also noticed by watching his coaching sessions with students on his Youtube is that he really emphasizes not slamming the consonants like the yuhs or the H sounds. I could totally see why because often times, its so easy to squeeze and tense the vocal folds with these consonants because of the air pressure therefore affecting resonance and ultimately losing tuning.

That is a very important aspect of singing. The key is definitely to almost think of them in terms of consonants being dangerous (which they really aren't physically) and try to stay/pronounce them as little as possible and go quickly to the vowel. I know I had a habit of overly pronouncing a key word, for example the often used "love." I would overemphasize all of it, so it came out more like "lllllyyyllllooooooooooovve" when it should be more like "looooooooooove."

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:02 am

That being said, it dawned on me (not just now of course) that that's the reason why Robert Plant slurred some of his words " Ya need coolin', babeh, A'm not foolen" like only a hungover person can not just because of the stylistic approach, but because of the heavy consonants that can just choke your folds out if you're not careful. If you try singing baby like BABYYYYYYYYYYY, well it almost hurts if you try singing in the range Percy did. Instead singings baby like BAABEHHH still gets the point across Dance 
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Gabriel-22 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:32 pm

Just too add to his range, I was watching him teach some deep purple songs to in YouTube

G5 in highway star

C5, E5 and A5 and possibly a brief Bb5 in Child In time

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Gabriel-22 on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:07 pm

and g2s In ring of fire,

I must admit he's very impressive, despite what you think of him as a person he's got some pipes,

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Buh-Red on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:24 pm

seems like a nice guy to me

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Gabriel-22 on Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:36 pm

Yeah, I just mean all the people calling him a douche and what not a few pages back,

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:27 am

Gabriel-22 wrote:Yeah, I just mean all the people calling him a douche and what not a few pages back,

Many vocalists who used SLS (among other vocal coaches) were offended by this video Ken posted. I think he did raise some legitimate flaws in the technique (most importantly the lack of support training)

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  The Great Heroins on Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:58 pm

Damn, Tamplin is getting cocky there! Oh well, I still like him. Poor SLS.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Buh-Red on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:30 pm

ken > other vocal teachers


fachts.

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  The Great Heroins on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:33 pm

I can sing more genuinely like a woman than Tamplin?
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Buh-Red on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:50 pm

lets be serious here

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  The Great Heroins on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:55 pm

Haha, Ken owns me in every way.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:40 am

In spite of everything he is still seems like a really nice guy. In fact, in the Modern Vocalist Forum he gave a LONG list of cruise liners looking for talent whether it be singers, dancers, or bands and the like plus the phone numbers/ addresses you can reach them at.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  jco5055 on Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:46 am




Oh shit, Ken covering Steelheart.

I was interested since Miljenko is more of the Geoff Tate esque head voice kind of guy, and I'm not sure what I think. It's not a "OMG Ken CAN sing stuff like Queensryche and other stuff that's not really his stye! HE'S THE BEST!" kind of thing, but it also wasn't horrible/is going to lead people to think that KTVA is only for belters/heavier singing.

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:35 pm

jco5055 wrote:


Oh shit, Ken covering Steelheart.

I was interested since Miljenko is more of the Geoff Tate esque head voice kind of guy, and I'm not sure what I think.  It's not a "OMG Ken CAN sing stuff like Queensryche and other stuff that's not really his stye!  HE'S THE BEST!" kind of thing, but it also wasn't horrible/is going to lead people to think that KTVA is only for belters/heavier singing.


2:52  Shocked Nice A5, he also gets a brief Bb5 in 2:45 and easy G5s throughout.  He also gets C5s, D5s and tops at a Eb5 in the "Lady Won't you save me?" chorus part.

Well, there you have it folks, Ken singing lighter and "headier". Pretty damn good for being a more of a "belter"  Laughing Not a fanboy by any means but honestly I think he sounds better singing "light" than some people implied in previous posts. The only thing I can say is that a few of the vowel modifications sounded a little weird in the verse like how he says blame like "blehame" but thats just a minor thing and it was done to relieve tension.



Here he sounds pretty pleasant to me, heavier than Jason Mraz obviously but in a way it gives the song a different character and I like it that way.

Edit*; BTW, who the hell is this curshdude character? I've seen that same long speech about how awful Ken's course is copy-and-pasted in the CVI forum topic on Ken. Has to be some troll because that seems to be the only post that guy makes before disappearing off both of these sites. Some "expert"...


Last edited by wabba_treads on Wed May 14, 2014 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  the_bachkator on Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:15 pm


Crazy belting up to A5.

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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  wabba_treads on Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:33 am



Ken really starts letting it loose @ 9:33.

Multiple powerful C5s, a few Eb5s, plus a huge G5 @ 9:47 Shocked and F5 afterwards.
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Re: Ken Tamplin

Post  Prometheus on Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:24 am

wabba_treads wrote:

Ken really starts letting it loose @ 9:33.

Multiple powerful C5s, a few Eb5s, plus a huge G5 @ 9:47 Shocked and F5 afterwards.
Uhmm, wrong timestamp?
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Re: Ken Tamplin

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